Hahaha, nice link Tuomas.

And yeah...as to there being a lawyer stating that felix's record is real, lawyers are only there to argue to defences case, be it truth, or fiction.
The video has too many faults and questionable happenings for it to just be accepted as 'Real'.

Kicks

Why is he paddling without gloves before the fall, but gloves during falling? Looks like a dummy

to be fair the timing is about right in the second video for a fall of that height if you work it out... a bit fortunate that there is a complete camera whiteout right as he hits the water... easily editable to then have a simple roll in the pool. the thing that bothers me is how small the pool is... with a waterfall that narrow, the surrounding area other than what is directly below the fall is not going to be very deep by the looks of it... interesting

on top of which there is no way in hell you land as flat as he did in that first video and be able to do that again 20 days later!!!

also why not just have a constant feed from when he gets in the boat to when he gets to the bottom... there is no need for the editing in the middle... hence whether you believe this or not it just does not conclude squatt!!

Why don`t they load up the complete footage, when they want to claim the world record!?

pete30 wrote:

Why don`t they load up the complete footage, when they want to claim the world record!?

Complete footage is very hard to fake

Tuomas wrote:

Complete footage is very hard to fake

I'm afraid I'm on the side of the sceptics on this one - but if the run was real, its a pity the video is so open to challenge, as a real descent deserves serious respect.

What happened to the video? It doesn't seem to be up on the site any more?

Some other questions:
I imagine the quality was clearer at the film festival than it is for those of us watching on the internet, so what sort of responses came from people who saw this at the film festival?

Were Felix or the film producer present to answer questions from the audience?

I was at the film festival, the footage was of course a lot better that what you get on the internet. The footage of the second descent with the helmet camera was particually good.

Like Jeroen said near the begining of this post, Felix is considered one of the best boaters in europe at the moment. He has run the Rein falls on the german / swiss border like 6 times, all different routes. This would be like maybe running niagara gorge in the states (from seriousness and amount of people who do it) 6 times.

As for the amount of people who are saying it's not possible, just from looking at a couple of photos of the fall?! Like anybody who boats knows that you cannot say how hard someting really is from a photo (unless it's grade 1 or 2, ok). I didn't want to belive that the first descent of the grade 5 niagara gorge was in a paddle steamer in like 1897 coz that's just not possible right?

Back to the main question from Mally, there wasn't anybody at the film festival that stood up and shouted \"Ballsh*t you didn't run that!\". But that could be because kayakers are such well behaved good little boys and girls.

Felix was there to answer questions, and seemed more concered that his wife wouldn't let him go boating anymore than if anybody said he was lieing. None of the German pro boaters seemed to think that he hadn't done it!?

It's always a disappointment to find out that there is somebody who is so much better than you in a sport that you give you whole life to and think that you're so good at. Well there's always playboating to be the best in. I hear that they have compertitions with rules and everything so people can't call you a cheat and say that ever though you won fair and square you can't boat for sh*t!

Have a nice day in the office, all you hardcore surfer dudes. ( I consider anybody who has time to make 200+ posts in a year to be much better surfer than me, even without video eviedence. Or to \"work\" in an office).

Umm, your making too much drama out of this. I can't speak for anyone else, but without the video footage I would happily believe someone dropped himself down a 34m high waterfall in a kayak. I mean, it's done from 30m - why not from 34m if the drop is suitable?

The video just doesn't look real - simple as that. Nothing else.

neilnt wrote:

I was at the film festival, the footage was of course a lot better that what you get on the internet. The footage of the second descent with the helmet camera was particually good.

Like Jeroen said near the begining of this post, Felix is considered one of the best boaters in europe at the moment. He has run the Rein falls on the german / swiss border like 6 times, all different routes. This would be like maybe running niagara gorge in the states (from seriousness and amount of people who do it) 6 times.

As for the amount of people who are saying it's not possible, just from looking at a couple of photos of the fall?! Like anybody who boats knows that you cannot say how hard someting really is from a photo (unless it's grade 1 or 2, ok). I didn't want to belive that the first descent of the grade 5 niagara gorge was in a paddle steamer in like 1897 coz that's just not possible right?

Back to the main question from Mally, there wasn't anybody at the film festival that stood up and shouted \"Ballsh*t you didn't run that!\". But that could be because kayakers are such well behaved good little boys and girls.

Felix was there to answer questions, and seemed more concered that his wife wouldn't let him go boating anymore than if anybody said he was lieing. None of the German pro boaters seemed to think that he hadn't done it!?

It's always a disappointment to find out that there is somebody who is so much better than you in a sport that you give you whole life to and think that you're so good at. Well there's always playboating to be the best in. I hear that they have compertitions with rules and everything so people can't call you a cheat and say that ever though you won fair and square you can't boat for sh*t!

Have a nice day in the office, all you hardcore surfer dudes. ( I consider anybody who has time to make 200+ posts in a year to be much better surfer than me, even without video eviedence. Or to \"work\" in an office).

Whats your problem dude? The bottom line is. The footage looks crap. And it looks damn fake. If Felix wants anyone to believe him then send out some proper footage. Simple as that. Come on? Why is it that sometimes it's on the site? Other times not? Why even send out poor quality footage in the first place. He sent it out as bad qaulity and still made the files huge. You can make it smaller and have better quality. No need to get nasty. Hells sake.

Neilt - thanks for telling us about what happened at the festival.

Felix knows in his heart what he's achieved -and this is the most important thing.

I guess if he's concerned about the video controversy he'll do something about it. I hope he stays alive and keeps enjoying paddling and pushing the limits.

Its interesting how this thread has evoked such strong responses!

Back to my computer now I'm afraid - boating but not waterfalls will have to wait till the weekend.....those of you lucky enough to work on a river, have a great day!

I'm going to jump in here in Felix's defense.

I do not know if the run was real or not. I cannot see why a paddler like felix would lie, so I have to assume its real.

The footage looks fake. Please note I said THE FOOTAGE, not Felix! There is a differance.

That being said, I ALSO KNOW how hard it can be to get good footage. Especially for the first run. Whether, position and location, lack of camera's or good cameramen... all sorts of things can happen to make getting the \"footage that proves it\" hard. Getting nasty towards the man for not having \"great hollywood grade\" footage is just wrong.

That being said, it seems like the POINT of the 2nd run was to quelch the reservations of the \"nay sayers\" who said \"bull\" on the first run. Thats why he went back, right? With a notary and all (anther reason to take his word for it). But, now what startels me is that the whole point of run 2 was to \"prove it beyond doubt\". All the footage of run 2 serves to do is INCREASE the doubt, not decrease it. It's even more doubtable than teh first run. The quality, editing - well, everything about it - leaves more room for question, not less.

It can;t be possible that there was really no way to get a better angle, even i it meant more time to set up. But time was not the issue run 2 - what with finding and dragging in a notary to watch. So I am left confused.

A man with a top notch reputation, and the skills necessary, claims to have run a waterfall that breaks the world record - twice!.

The \"footage\" that proves it, looks in its content, to be highly suspect and \"fake\". editing glitches - paddles reversed between cuts, gloves on and off, etc etc as has already been discussed. And then the 2nd run weeks after a rib was broken from the first. All this lends for even the most accepting person to become a serious critic.

Felix does not need to \"prove\" anything to us if he doesn't want to. He is in his rights to say \"screw you\" and walk away, knowing for himself the truth, and that being enough. BUT.... if he wants to CLAIM this as a WORLD RECORD, then it DOES need to be better explained/proved to his peers.

This of course coming from a man (me) who \"claims\" a world record (31 m) back in the 1980's and has no photo's, and no proof other than the few eye whitnesses who saw it:roflol:

Felix - in the end, only you need to care. You certainly do NOT need to listen to us on here debating this, and you MOST CERTAINLY don't need to take to heart a single comment thats aggressive or negative towards you. Everything I've heard about you from those who know you state frankly that you are honest, and a good man - and an awesome paddler. Thats what matters. Whether you decide to provide better footage (or unedited footage) is entirely up to you.

Take care all.

Corran

You can see the cockpit rim (no skirt) in the second in the second vid if you slow it down.

B

I am happy for Corrans last post. I belive Felix and dont now why it should be fake. I like to see paddlers too push limits like mr. Corran,Shaun,Tao and.......
Why should bee it mission imposible? because I can not doo it?

:o) Kosatka , Czech Republic

p.s. sorry about my bad english:o(

On the second run am i correct in saying felix lands...upside down?...
I really also don't like the way his arms flop around as if, perhaps, it's a dummy...

The footage is very questionable, and for those who are getting all worked up over this, remember...the footage is appauling. The FOOTAGE, not Felix.

I agree with all those who have said, if Felix wants all those who don't have the chance to attend the film festival, he needs to get out some clearer footage on the internet, as this record is incredibly admirable...

Kicks

I've looked at this footage over and over again, and I was almost convinced that it could possibly be real. Timing is right, I can't see any exact cut moment from the drop to the roll, etc. The one thing that clinches it for me is, if you look at the camera angle right before the drop and the paddle, you'll notice that neither the paddle nor the bow of the boat move AT ALL in the frame, aside from slight vibrations, and this screams to me that the paddle and hand were not a real person's, and more importantly, the camera was on a fixed mount (as in, not a live person's head). I find it beyond the realm of believability that a person would not take a single stroke as he approached the lip, or at LEAST glance down, instead of staring stoically at his bow. The lack of camera movement provides proof beyond a reasonable doubt that this is a hoax.

www.bondle.de/Kajak_Videos/Rheinfall_Live.wmv

This is a video of the latest runs of Felix. For the people, who don`t know Felix.

pete30 wrote:

www.bondle.de/Kajak_Videos/Rheinfall_Live.wmv

This is a video of the latest runs of Felix. For the people, who don`t know Felix.

Great video. Felix is obviously a very capable paddler.

Now that video is pretty sweet. Nice Felix. Couldn't you guys have made the big waterfall like that one? Would be much more believable. It's a real shame those other two videos ever came out the way they did. Guess we'll wait in the meantime...

Wise words adrian...wise words.

Yeah nice video though!

Check this out!
riverkore.com/kore/content/view/113/35/

right, so you German fellas just gone all quiet all of sudden? where is a real video, with proper footage Not that crap u had:frustrated:

just becose u ran the rhinefalls doesn't give you enough credit to just claim the record dudes.

nice joke allan, love the sense of humur, youre da man

COME ON prove it, and if he is so humble, quiet, uinknown then why even make a dam video:frustrated: in the first place
the world awaits. or have u run outa replies to your joke:?:

we wait...

What's wrong? Cat got your tongue?

What, i think you should calm down slightly, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and you should respect that, i think this subject has reached a stand still. This argument could carry on for a long time with no definitive end, so there's no point trying to keep it going just for arguments sake.

Kicks

Kicks wrote:

What, i think you should calm down slightly, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and you should respect that, i think this subject has reached a stand still. This argument could carry on for a long time with no definitive end, so there's no point trying to keep it going just for arguments sake.

Kicks

Please explain how I am not calm?

I'd like to know what is going on now. I am also entitled to my opinion and have not said anything to prevent anyone from having their say. u on the other hand are having a problem with me having my say, obviusly. not trying to keep it going, just want to see some decent footage, just like every one else. or just admit it was a bad fake. who's knows.

nathan wrote:

World record drops have to be run in a bat man suit. Every idiot knows that.

hahaha thats true you know they also have to wear underpants over there trousers. on a more serious note even though i've already said that it could'nt be done i think i might have been wrong and the headcam footage(it's on youtube) of the second run looks real as you can see slight body adjustments during the descent p.s felix sounds like a great guy.

but if it is no fake, what would be still possible i think, tehen why is there a cut when he dife into water at the second descent?
could you explane me?

in those two videos there are quiet a lot curiositys, so if you give us some better footage, we would be very pleased.

i dont wanna con someone.

I would love to see that the descents were real.
greetz from germany philipp

what wrote:

Kicks wrote:

What, i think you should calm down slightly, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and you should respect that, i think this subject has reached a stand still. This argument could carry on for a long time with no definitive end, so there's no point trying to keep it going just for arguments sake.

Kicks

Please explain how I am not calm?

I'd like to know what is going on now. I am also entitled to my opinion and have not said anything to prevent anyone from having their say. u on the other hand are having a problem with me having my say, obviusly. not trying to keep it going, just want to see some decent footage, just like every one else. or just admit it was a bad fake. who's knows.

I agree completely with your views, yeah we do need some better footage and fair enough the current \"evidence\" is pretty bad.
I think calm down wasn't quite what i ment, i just thought that some of your comments were abit agressive in their tone and could be taken as rude, for instance \"What a load of bull\" was in my opinion, not the most polite way to start a comment. Also \"where is a real video, with proper footage Not that crap u had\" seems again, rude.
I don't know you personaly and i realise that you have an opinion and yes, you are entitled to it, but have courtesy. I'm sure you didn't intend to be rude, and i hope you can understand my view point.
All the best.
Kicks

records, first descents, speed records are all nice things to put as a patch on your lifejacket or ego.

obviously they are hard to proove, as mostly kayaking will happen in remote or difficult to be reached locations.

usually (in the old days), the comunity was small and there were no easy small hdtv cameras to be taken along.

it was (hopefully still is) all about the fun and the personal challenge. i think and believe that felix is the same type of person. i read an article about him many years ago and was impressed and inspired.

i thought i did a big feast when i soloed rivers in the himalayas, just to find out, that some other \"hippy\" went down there in the 80s solo and there might have been even others before.

with camera or not, those are not real worldrecords but achievements, just as so many other runs were people try to get over their own fears and do it for their own sake.

back to the falls. there have been higher falls kayaked, fallen over or similar. some with footage some without. usually no one cared.

felix obviously wants to claim a record and, there is the sketchy part. no one will seriously believe a bunch of kayakers just claiming a record without proove (see corrans 31m fall), so they made a video (i looked at it once) unfortunately bad. there are not many great camera mans out there to be at hand quickly and no good equipment either (so it was in the 80s i guess) but now? in the new millenia? it should´ve been easily possible to go out there with 2,3 cameras and film from various angles to proove the truth on this it still is europe and not african jungle 10days from civilisation). they also must have known, that they will be facing headwind, as kayaking nowadays can pay money (so i heard) and thus there is competition about exposure.

exposure he has definately achieved, which i believe felix should´ve gotten long time before (waterfall record or not).

as mentioned before, he´s been kayaking all sorts of crazy runs, be it solo, in high waters or funny boats. he´s kayaked the rhinefalls...there are people out there claiming their whole kayaking life on this one achievement.

bottom line...i don´t want to point the finger to anyone (as usually 3 will point back to yourself), i don´t want to say the video is wrong but,

too many people, kayaker forget that there´s competition out there for sponsors/money, also means many better boaters then we are ourselves, people, gear and techniques are getting better (great so) and all is pushing for better achievements (even better so).

this also means there will (are?) be more and more fakes and lies coming up to claim tricks, falls, descents to be able to get more sponsorship. hollywood is showing us too many possibilities of tricks in editing and i am sure it is only a short step away to get much better fake (not claiming felix´s is) footage to show a100m or whatever record.

thus the nice guys from the guiness book are setting up guidelines to be recorded in their list of record holders.

so i keep sticking it out in the himalayas, get on to a nice river and kayak it. but hey, some of it i tell about on my website. nice stories or true lies doesn´t matter...just fun.

oh hey, i was/am on the feat of being the first to have kayaked all 8000m peaks but i bumped into some 50+ year old guy who claimed he did all of them with a rubber boat...uhm...no photos he said, as he´s doing it all by himself. but he got photos from the put in and the take out....i had a glass a beer with him and gratulated to his record...so i might be the second..or third...or 20th...but for myself they are all first descents and big personal achievements..


over and out...