Kokatat has no need to make excuses. They are doing everything they can to get the vest passed. The main problem is the belt. In fact, no one can get their belt approved in states. Many other companies went to CHINA to do the USCG tests. Kokatat is keeping it state side and I think that is something to be stoked about.

No argument here. The people and products from Kokatat rock!

Do you think that it's worth waiting until the Ronin Pro becomes available in the US, or just look for a different one first? I will hopefully have a chance to look at the Stohlquist X-Traxt since I have a Stohlquist and it is really comfortable, the Astral Green Jacket, and the Extrasport Pro Creeker. I need to get some foam soon, so that will be my excuse for going to the store to my parents .

Good ploy.... the foam thing. I see potential!

As for waiting? Kokatat may decide it is not worth the cost and hassel and never release the Ronin Pro in the US.

If you are boating class III-IV or are paddling class III on a regular basis with newbees you and everyone in your crew should already have a type V PFD (my opinion) and all should take a swiftwater course or instruction from someone you trust.

If III-IV is not your near future boating plans...then, like your paddle I might say wait until you go thru your growth spurts. A vest that fits you now at 14 won't fit you when your 18. That being said you should retire a vest after 4 or 5 seasons anyway.


Really when it comes down to it, if you can afford one, try what's around, pick what fits you best and buy it. Learn how to use it, know it. Like rolling and using your throw bag practice everytime you go out, make every function second nature. Like a great low brace, being able to use you PFD without thinking about it will only make you that much better of a boater.


t

I would go as far as to say on any natural river, you should have a rescue PFD, since if you had to bail before a rapid, even if it is class I, you could easily have a foot entanglement. There have been quite a few deaths on Nantahala, particularly at Patton's Run, which is classified as a II+ by AW. I can fit 2 carabiners, 3 pieces of 4' cord, knife, and whistle in the front pocket of my PFD, and have 15' of webbing inside of my 70' throw bag in my boat. I tried to get everything for a really basic Z-Drag if it is necessary, but as I am thinking about it, what if I made the webbing into a climbing-style harness with a bowline tied through the usual carabiner attachment point, with the other end of the rope tied to a tree with a clove hitch. Would this not work, and since I can make a harness in about 15 seconds, would that not be enough in a max of class IV situations? Saves a lot of money, and my webbing is military-spec, rated to 18.1 kN, or over 3x the normal strength of most PFD shoulder harnesses (standard seems to be 1100 lbs of force, vs. 4000 for the webbing).

cjcc wrote:

....and have 15' of webbing inside of my 70' throw bag in my boat.

Take it out. And take a swift water rescue course as soon as possible. All the gear in the world is useless without knowledge. (You seem to have a very analytical mind, perhaps you should go into engineering or something along those lines when you leave school, just a thought. )

I think that the key words that are missing here CJCC are "Quick Release".

i.e. a Rescue PFD has a Quick Release, a Climbing harness (improvised or not) is not quick releaseable. Neither is your rope tied to the tree either unless you use a no-knot or a munter hitch.

Like Adrian says a swiftwater rescue course is a good idea.

Neil Newton Taylor
www.swiftwaterrescue.at

I will definitely take a SWR course, but only once it gets warmer (not snowing and -6 degrees Celsius). I'm just wondering if I should buy a rescue PFD, because if I do the Kokatat Ronin Pro will probably be out before I get to use it much. Also, if anyone has any comments on the Stohlquist X-Traxt, please comment.

P.S. Adrian, I hope to become an architect in around 10 yrs. and I am one of the few people in the whole school system taking Alg. II in 8th grade, and got a 96 on the final exam, if that help explains my anylitical mind.

Hey Ian, Since you aren't boating this time of year you could wait, but there is no way the Ronin will be for sale in the States by spring. Since you have to go "buy foam" anyways, wouldn't hurt to try on the other vest that are at your local outfitter. You may find the ExtraSport Pro Creeker is just what you are looking for.

Good to hear you are planning on taking a SWR course! This is a good time of year to take that throw bag out and toss it around, practice knots and setting up "Z" drags, vector pulls etc. There is a great old video running around called "Doctor Throwbag". Although dated it's Pretty funny and quite good.

cjcc wrote:

P.S. Adrian, I hope to become an architect in around 10 yrs. and I am one of the few people in the whole school system taking Alg. II in 8th grade, and got a 96 on the final exam, if that help explains my anylitical mind.

I don't know what those figures mean but I have no doubt you'll be great at that job! I've got the same type of mind Good luck with that.

Yeah Dr. Throwbag is the bomb! Maybe Jeroen knows where it is. Used to easy to find on the old system but I can't find it on Playak.tv. Wonder if he transfered that one.

If you happen to own Legend of the Falls, by Corran Addison then it's also on that DVD as an extra.

Taking the course in such cold weather would be rather unpleasant, to say the least But don't forget to do one when you can..

Algebra II is where you learn the unit circle, trigonometry is expanded like sine, cosine, tangent, secant, cosecant, and cotangent. Also has rational equations, synthetic division, etc. In the last semester, I was the only student out of our about 360 person 8th grade, since the government is trying to dumb everyone down to the same level, since there is no longer even a standard 8th grade standard geometry class...I used to be in a special program for people with an IQ over 145, if it helps clarify.

Adrian, have you had any trouble with the bow end of the thigh braces, where the seam on the plastic is? That is the area that I need to get foam for, and I was wondering if you have had a similar problem. The Stohlquist X-Traxt looks like the best right now, because of the price ($165 on OutdoorPlay) followed by the Astral Green Jacket ($170 at the USNWC store, since everything is currently 15% off) and the Extrasport Pro Creeker (Scouts get a 10% discount at both of my local stores).

Ah yeah. I'm quite familiar with mathematics at a University level Some interesting stuff, some stuff from hell too

Er, nope. I assume you're referring to your small Solo? No problems with the thigh braces on any of my boats. I put a pad on the inside of the boat where my knee sits and then also a block to support the outside of my knee. This gives me excellent edge control and keeps my legs exactly in position.

Just get an Astral Aquavest 300 and be done with it! I love mine..

It's hard to find a new Aquavest since the Green Jacket has replaced it, and the only way to get an Aquavest is used. I would never want to buy a PFD used unless I knew who used it, how it has been treated, etc. If it is stored wet, and there is tons of mildew, it would definitely not be worth it. Just so you know, the thigh brace on mine has a straight seam with two dots, much like this: ---o-o---. It gave me a decent rash in a pool session, and if any part of your body is irritating you, your knee would probably be 2nd most important to your shoulders, because it would hurt to roll or even be impossible to roll it. I'm thinking that I might take out the thigh braces, tear out the current foam, use the extra pads to trace a pattern onto some new foam, and leave some excess to glue the foam all around the thigh braces. I may also take a picture and try to post it.

Also, as far as the math goes, conics are the most annoying thing that I have ever learned, because of all of the formulas (ellipse, hyperbola, parabola, circle, foci, minor/major axis, vertex form, etc.). At least I had a good teacher . I am planning to take Calculus next year, and you might be familiar with that.

Oh, didn't know that. Such a pity! The Aquavest is the bomb!

Hmmm, your thigh braces don't sound quite right. Mail me on: adriantregoning(AT)hotmail.com and send a picture or two of the thigh brace when you have time.

Then I'm sure you'll just love differentiation and integration Useful stuff though, and like almost everything in maths, can be represented on a graph Ok, enough off topic! Good luck with your vest choice..

I just found a brand new Nookie River Monster on Boatertalk and am wondering how it compares (flotation, features, pockets, pullover/front/side entry, durability). Any feedback would be appreciated.

is it USCG approved?

It's sold by Wakawai, so I would think that it is, but I'm not positive. My other main choice has become the Stohlquist X-Traxt, since it is less than the other new jackets by $25-$35 and I currently have a Stohlquist and it fits great. The only problem that I have with mine is that when I tighten the shoulder straps, the material bunches up. I went to my local store that stocks Astral, Extrasport, Stohlquist, MTI, and Lotus Designs, but the only Extrasports that they had were the outfitter-style PFDs and they had the Stohlquist Flowter and some fishing vest (mesh lower back, but two TOWmotion-style pockets). I'm still looking though:) .

EDIT: Here is the other Stohlquist life jacket that they had. I didn't see it on Stohlquist's site, but REI still has it. link

Not to sound like a total idiot but what makes a PFD USCG approved. I know there are some "playboater" vests on the market that are not USCG approved. I understand you could run into trouble if caught wearing one on lakes or in the ocean. Does the same principal apply to rivers? I have seen some nice European PFD's that are not USCG approved but look as good or better than anything in the U.S.

Here's the link again: www.uscgboating.org/SAFETY/fedreqs/equ_pfd.htm

You should also realize that swift water rescue belts usually have two modes for threading the strap trough the buckle, In one mode the has reduced friction and will allow the water to push you off the belt in case a release is needed. there is at least on mine a secondary stailess fitting which you thread the webbing through first before puttin it throughn the quick realease buckle. This piece provides heaps of friction and the bely in this mode is used as a belay wnen you will be the belayer on shore. Visit Northwaters web site and check out the directions. In the belay mode there is to much friction for the water to push you clear of the rope should you be in the water. so there is a quick release setting and a belay setting and you do not want to mix them up

You should also be aware of the fact that once you slip into the rescue vest the belt indicates to other paddlers that you are prepared to enter the water to recsue. I have taken a swift water tech course and swimming resues involing ropes are dangeous business even with good training. Swift water rescue personal lose more personal than any other form of rescue. Wearing the recue belt means you should be a strong swimmer and versed in in water rescue swimming methods. and that you are willing to take the risk. In areas where there are lots of new paddlers the vest is what they look for when things go wrong.

As an update, I had a chance to try the Green Jacket a few days ago, and it was really comfortable. However, it took me a good bit if time to get it adjusted, and I don't like the pullover design. Another option could be the Astral Tempo 200, since it can be retrofitted with a QR belt. According to Extrasport, the waist belt on the Pro Creeker hits the belly button area, which seems like it would be ideal, since that is about where my current PFD is right now. I still can't find a place that regularly stocks them, but I can special order one.

EDIT: I have also been wondering why the Kokatat Ronin passed inspection, but the Ronin Pro didn't. Does anyone have any ideas about this?

Hi all,

A new PFD from Europe, Slovenia.
Sandiline new PFD river:
www.eauxvives.org/forum/download/file.php?id=219&mode=view
www.eauxvives.org/forum/download/file.php?id=220&mode=view
www.eauxvives.org/forum/download/file.php?id=221&mode=view

Thilo Schmitt, the extrem kayak world champion (adidas sickline), wan with this PFD!!
The adidas sickline team paddles with, and of course the sandiTribe!!

I really enjoy my sandiline PFD, it's confortable, good quality and good looking!!
This PFD is about 180 Euros in Europe (about 150$), and I don't know about the rest of the world...

Val
valgrollemund.blogspot.com

The only PFDs that I can find from them in the US are here . None of them are rescue jackets, and I don't even see the one that you mentioned. Also, 180 Euros is actually $230 USD, which is more than I think any other PFD on the market.

Sorry... I'll take more informations about the price.

Don't worry it's normal you didn't see this PFD, it's a new one and I hope you'll have soon...

Since the Ronin Pro is Transport Canada certified, will this help make it USCG approved as well? www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/cg5214/namericanstand.asp

Also, does anyone have feedback on the Salus Marine Darwin Expedition or the Nookie River Monster ? I was looking at the Green Jacket, but the rescue belt was sewn into the jacket. I am not sure if that is made as a piece that holds the belt in place, but the one that they had at my local store had nothing going through the QR plate. That is really the only negative for me, since I could easily retrofit it with buckles, which if you have compared the Green Jacket and Willis, the side straps are nearly identical, but the Willis has buckles.

CJCC..... You ned to chill out and go kayaking. ENough with all the questions. Being smart is cool, but it doesn't help you when running the gnar that much. Just buy some crappy stuff with your allowance and have fun. Don't over analyze kayaking. It's just some gradient, H20 and rocks. BOOF!

Its the belt dude

I am going paddling soon, but my current PFD's shoulder straps are really uncomfortable, and I mainly want a PFD with good pockets and a lash tab, but if I am going to get a new PFD, I might as well get a good one that I can use for almost any purpose. I had a pool session yesterday night, and hope to be going to another one next week.