I am interested in everyone's thoughts about kayak volume in different styles of boats.

I am a relatively new playboater and want to know how much of my playboating difficulty is poor technique and how much I can attribute to the boat. I am a solid 6 foot 200 lb paddler with a thick trunk. I have found some boats painful to sit in and have tended to buy larger boats. I had to take out the hip pads in my Pyranha Rev L to get comfortable. I can surf and flatspin, but have difficulty getting vertical, at least in flatwater. Should I be able to get this short but reasonably high-volume playboat vertical? In a playboat can volume make a difference? This boat is 6'5" and 60 gallons. A medium is about 56 gallons. Can 4 gallons make a difference? It is more than 33 lbs. of water displacement; but combining my weight with the boat is 233 lbs or 28 gallons of displacement. The 4 gallons is primarily above the water line and probably only a fraction must be forced down when going vertical.

What about volume in some of the newer river-running boats such as the Dagger Axiom or Pyranha Z.One. These are longer and faster boats, better for running. They are advertised as having flat bottoms and better for play than the similar older boats they are modeled after. Since I presume most play in these boats is surfing/spinning, there probably isn't much advantage in smaller volume with these boats; but the smaller volume may be a disadvantage running as rivers get bigger/more difficult. Does this make sense?

It seems like you're overanalyzing this. More volume = more air for vertical moves, but it can be harder for beginners to get the ends down in order to begin the moves. Just check out some videos on playboating, as well as try putting some water in the boat, which both should help. Also, since you said that you had to take out the hip pads to be comfortable, you might want to check out a Jackson, which are the only boats that I know of that have progressively larger cockpits for each larger model. If you want to do more playboating, don't get a boat like the Axiom, since it is not designed as a modern playboat. It may work for enders, cartwheels, and pivot turns, but that's about it.

You said that some boats are painful to sit in, but if they are outfitted properly, then if you fit inside of the boat with a little extra foot room (1-2" min.) then you should be able to put in some foam to cushion your feet, thigh risers and knee blocks to lock your legs in the thigh braces, and that should get rid of most of the pain. The thigh risers are amazing; I had pain whenever I would roll/attempt to roll, and now I am really comfortable in my boat, with no problems whatsoever.

If you want a river runner, I would go with a higher-volume boat like a Liquid Logic Remix, Pyranha Karnali/Burn, etc. that will have a bit more speed than a playboat, which should help in punching holes. If you really want a river-running playboat, go with a Pyranha Recoil or JK Fun, since they aren't much longer than regular playboats.

Thanks for the reply.

The evolution of my kayak ownership. My first boat was a WS SuperEZ- incredibly comfortable. Most of my paddling was on rivers. It was not particularly fast or maneuverable but good enough for the class3 rivers I paddled. Any mistakes I made going through modest holes I could usually save myself by bulling through/over. I wanted to both paddle bigger rivers and start playboating. I purchased a Burn. Compared with the Superez I felt like I was cheating going downriver. But it isn't much of a playboat. Last year I bought the large Rev to try and get better at playboating. My ability has improved, to a point.

From what you have said the problem is primarily a technical one with the playboating; I should be able to get the ends down in the Rev. Good. I would rather not spend the money on a similar boat. I'll work on the outfitting and technique.

Earlier this spring I took the Rev on some fairly technical rivers hoping to run and play. While the boat was adequate for most of the day there were a couple of wide pourovers I felt I could have avoided with a faster boat. I found the Rev is not particularly forgiving going over a real hole. It was quite entertaining to my companions in longer boats.

I am looking for a boat between the Rev and Burn. I had not thought of the Recoil. I am afraid the SuperEZ and Fun are too similar to the Rev and not as good on river as I am hoping to find. Any other ideas?

The Jackson Star would be similar to the Rev, and the Fun would be similar to the Recoil.

Buy two boats. Your problem is a common one. There is no boat that satisfies all situations.... Much like cars, and even woman. But let's not go there

Have you tried the medium Fluid Spice? I'm 6' and about 187lbs with no clothes/gear. Might be worth a demo if you can get hold of one. Good luck

ii mostly creek because i found my playboat unconfortable
i had an astro 58, this year i change for a RECOIL large
i did only on river with this boat but i know that i will have fun with this boat

because:
it got speed, so i can catch every wave on the river and surf it
it got enough edge, so i can carve on a wave
it's long engouh to have a lot of foot room and speed

it's a riverplay boat that i will feel confindent to run up to class IV- rapids in it

Jackson all the way, the Star series are probably the best playboats. im 6ft 4 and about 17.5 stone and the superstar is my boat of choice. very comfy with lots of room but still plays well. i (like you) am just getting into playboating and getting vertical can be tricky but the key is practice. if you know the theory just keep plugging away and soon you'll be sat vertical with a big grin on your face!