Wow, I really appreciate those kind words, and that my efforts to be fair and good to the employees during my time there was noticed.

Its funny, when we look back on things, how sometimes its the small things that count. Jeff and I had very different views of how the company relationship with employees should be. I'm not suggesting one is "more correct" than the other... just different. I wanted to put into place a profit sharing program, and also company share allocation for long term employees - we give back to you what you give to us. Also... little things like I wanted ""pizza fridays" - where the company pays for Pizza for everyone on friday lunch, and "ice cream" days in summer when we buy everyone some ice cream when its 35C and we're working hard. I know what it was like to be downstaires - I was there a lot of the time with you guys... that sort of thing. I was never able to get these simple things in place. You'd think it was easy to do... but no. I'm not pointing fingers... as this was what "I" wanted to do, and a partnership is just that - a partnership with decisions being made by both partners - there needs to be agreement between the partners and sometimes you have to choose carefully the battles you need to fight and win.

Anyway, I'm stoked that at least my efforts to be fair and do the right thing in working with people was noticed.

Corran

Sherloc-homes... you'll get a kick out of this discussion below (and probably recognize the writing style of the poster too lol):

canoekayak.com/features/stories/3-questi...with-corran-addison/

Corran

I'm truly amazed, and disgusted, with how far out of hand this whole thing has gotten. Website after website after forum after forum are filled with speculations (at times quite libelous) and mudslinging. There have been the few supportive words, but those tend to get washed out by the roar of the other, harsher words. The truth of the matter is that none of us--NONE of us--not even Corran (no disrespect meant here to Corran)--have the whole story. Frankly, we don't really have much of the story. One thing I've learned from life is that there is ALWAYS more to a story than what we see or think we know. Of course, this could mean there are bad things or good things--it can go either way, but isn't it best to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. Going through bankruptcy can be incredibly embarrassing and emotional. Step back and try to imagine experiencing such a wrenching event. I'd want to hide my face in the sand for awhile. I can't even begin to imagine going through such an ordeal as that, let alone having it exacerbated by the mudslinging and speculations that have been flying about. Bankruptcies happen. It is not abnormal, nor illegal, for a business to use them to avoid going out of business entirely; or to regroup and figure out how to hold everything together. Honestly, this won't be the last one we see. Wouldn't it be better to simply let the matter rest--let the guy figure out how he's going to recover from this? In this economy, I'd much rather see communities rally around each other, not grow fearful and suspicious; not throw out unfounded speculations and build mistrust--it's truly disgusting. NONE of us know the story--stop sullying the air with accusations and personal agendas and suspicions. Basically--give it a rest and let's see what happens. Let it play out. Sheesh.

shhhhhhh, sit in the corner dude.
I'm loving the controversy. This reads better than a soap opera.

Corran leaves Riot, Jeff takes over and decline follows,
Riot goes bang and sponsored paddler vents his spleen.
now the mudslingging. This is juicy stuff. who ever said the paddling community was a group of boring old codgers.

sherloc, you need to chat to an IRS official or somone who deals in financial crimes. It what you say is correct then it is worth an investigation. One can have shadow companies but creditors are creditors irrespective of the name you operate under. If the values of honesty and integrity are foremost in ones character then simply transfer the creditors to the new company.
If you set out to screw them over then you leave them high and dry, which is what appears to have happened here.

I found Corran's account of how Voodoo and Riot were structured to be interesting. Thanks. BTW, those Drago's of yours are really fine looking boats. I like what you've done there.

I just hope the employees at Riot find themselves on their feet again soon. It a really crappy, low integrity person who fires staff over the phone.

Glad I didn't buy a Riot 6weeks ago.

That said, the paddling community does not need this kind of personal muslinging thrown about by this Fischer character. The sport seems to be a massive decline yet it's not expensive to start off if one compares it to say Marathon Mountain Biking; yet it has a mcuh smaller following. In-fighting does little to endear the sport to newbies.

There is some interestting information surfacing and usually the reason the mudslinging starts, is because someone has hit a very sensitive nerve.

jajauma

You are absolutely right... and as I (and many others have said repeatedly), we know very little about what is going on there. This is why I have kept my comments to what I do know - namely what the company's legal structure WAS when I was there. Everything else is, as most have said, speculation based on incomplete information, derived from various souses including out of pocket creditors, out of work employees and out of sponsorship athletes.

And it remains all speculation (and until a certain athlete started taking/making it personal) there was little mud slinging going on, which is how it should be.

This IS BIG NEWS in kayaking - of course it's going to be a main topic of discussion, and until Jeff makes an official statement, people will make assumptions and deductions, most of which are probably going to be wrong.

Corran

Of course this is big news and of course there will be talk, but...talk and wondering are one thing. Insinuations of illegal activity and defamation of character (on both sides) are quite another. Guess we'll just have to keep waiting for the official statement. I just hope everyone will start keeping the gloves up.

Wondering is not a crime JJ.

Wondering or imagination is a natural human process whereby the mind tries to look for truths in a murk of information.
Since this a public forum / discussion group, people are entitled to wonder, imagine, insinuate based on the information they have at hand. The insinuations, facts around structure and mudslinging are incredibly revealing around character, good and bad.

Also I do not think that Corran's line around his lackof surprise around the process of Jeff's unbundling of the companies was mudslinging. It is an indicator of the different ways these two people manage their companies and hence it is more revealing around why they not doing business together was probably better for one than the other, perhaps both. If the Managing partners of a company have completely opposite sets of corporate values then one has to leave n order for a company to be successful. In Riot's case not. Thats revealing too...
(notice i say Corporate values and not personal values)

Short of an official statement, I doubt anyone here is regarding this discussion as the gospel truth around Voodoo's demise (Lets get that straight too shall we). we don;t know if Riot Kayaks is under yet.

I will not feed more of this Oprah Winfrey madness...
We know who's right and wrong anyway!!! ... We know one thing .. IS That CORRAN ADISSON is not the one show in certain forums.......We have work with him and in any cases or situations he was not the one that peoples seem to accuse him of..........If boats was spliding apart , is because some of our molders was on cocaine or drunks and was not responsable enough to mix the good % of plastic in the molds.......Nothing to do with Corran desings...wow this is sad bull and free..........

What about killing gaz created by the molding stove in the factory? (because it was so dangerous for employes) electronic machine install by gouverment and later close by JEFF because it was not respecting the rules!!!! Despîte our demande to respect it.............

Our demandes to respect the recycle and be a exemple for the Nature and the outdoor peoples!!

We will leave this forum and take it in public....


enjoy you summer all and have fun ....

FLuid Tim wrote:

Since this a public forum / discussion group, people are entitled to wonder, imagine, insinuate based on the information they have at hand.

That's not quite true. This forum is open for all, but as they say: Freedom of the press belongs to those who own the press. And that's me in this case. So if I don't want personal insults and rude language on my website, I have the right to demand so, or even delete messages that I don't like. As I said before, I don't like doing that, but one of the great characteristics of the Playak forums (that even sets us apart from most other forums) is that we treat each other with respect here, and I plan to keep it that way

OOOO, nothing like a bit of Swiss Neutral dictatorship.
Sure it's your "media" so there are rules. I just think that rules are a guide to ensure fairness. The first and most powerful indicatorof fairness is persoanl values.

I don't feel that anything unreasonable has been said on this forum. Theres a disgruntled former employee shedding light from one perspective and a former partner shedding light from another.
The truth lies in the middle somewhere. ccencorship helps no one

the same content, the same intent can be expressed with a modicum of decorum and often will be more effective than just the pure anger and shock value of other methods.
From a grand perspective, if a discussion is allowed to decay into too much rudeness and mudslinging then it ceases to be a debate and ends up just being a fight. If that happens then fewer people will participate and pay attention, thus rendering the thing useless. I think those are Jeroen's motivations, and not censorship.
There is a difference between an arguement and a fight.

Good points Scott.

There are a lot of angry people who were involved with Voodoo (Riot).

Anger is a valid emotion and to a certain degree those who have been hurt by appears to be a sordid event, should be allowed to express that anger. Telling them to go away just makes them more angry. there are safe places to vent, places where people can chose to read or chose not to read, chose to listen or chose not to listen.

This debate is slow shifting away from a Riot bankruptcy discussion to one of forum ethics. Jeroen made his point so lets get back to the topic at hand.

So IS Riot dead in the water, up the creek without a paddle so to speak?

Yup. I don't see anyone buying a Riot right now unless they could get one very cheap from a retailer.
But, my hope is that some of the molds will end up in the right hands and they can spin some Magnums and Astros again.
The details of if it's the Chinese operation, or if they get sold to someone else as part of liquidation is a story that won't be told until it happens. In the mean time, all we can hope for is that the people at the factory have an easy time finding new work, and that all the executives involved find an arrangement that works without any additional stress.

Missing text? Has some of this forum post disappeared or been censored? - it now seems to start in the middle of nowhere. Weren't there some words from Adrian earlier? Or was there a PC problem with an overproliferation of sun-bronzed asses?

Croft wrote:

Missing text? Has some of this forum post disappeared or been censored? - it now seems to start in the middle of nowhere. Weren't there some words from Adrian earlier? Or was there a PC problem with an overproliferation of sun-bronzed asses?

the thread became so large that it's automatically been split into 2 pages. see the pagination links on the top and bottom right.

Yep Jeroen - I saw and tried that that but when I press on page 1 I just get page 2 again - maybe my computer is a fossil like its owner!

Croft wrote:

Yep Jeroen - I saw and tried that that but when I press on page 1 I just get page 2 again - maybe my computer is a fossil like its owner!

i'll look into that, as someone alse was complaining about that as well ( a very young guy btw ) , it's just that i can't reproduce that bug here, which makes it a bit hard to repair...

sherlock home wrote:

I will not feed more of this Oprah Winfrey madness...

you don't stop feeding the show, your credibillity is going


FLuid Tim wrote:
I don't feel that anything unreasonable has been said on this forum. Theres a disgruntled former employee shedding light from one perspective and a former partner shedding light from another.
The truth lies in the middle somewhere. ccencorship helps no one [/quote]

i taught the thruth lies in the middle but sherloc seem to be feed more by anger than the truth (that's my point of view)



ScottBarnes wrote:

I don't see anyone buying a Riot right now unless they could get one very cheap from a retailer.
But, my hope is that some of the molds will end up in the right hands and they can spin some Magnums and Astros again.

is there a lot of paddler buying boat from the retailler right now ?

if you got a new riot boat at a used boat price, it's a good buy for me. Used boat are not warrantied and we don't know right now wath will happen with riot
the warranty isn't a big issue for me, because the magnum and astro has been mold a lot and i did saw broken boat because fabrication default

we got till spring to have the comments from riot, they didn't give one yet maybe they're working on something and couldn't go out public with it yet


i read that the jackson boat are warrantied even if you baught it second. it's very good but i mainly creek and i broke my boat by using them that's not warrantied by any company and should'n't. Riot boat are 30% to 40% cheaper than the jackson here. I loved my magnum 80 it handle very good int he class iV-class V that we got around quebec city and i don't want to get used to another creeker

Jimb! we wish you a nice spring and specially a nice Easter chocolate bunny. it will be a plaisur for us to repair your old RIOT Boats!!!

only time will tell, we got one or two snowstorm left, so until the snow melt and the creek rise i gota month and a half to go snowboarding ubtil then i hope we receive an official reply or news from riot

I have already emailed Spencer Cooke's Youtube account, but someone may want to try his Playak account (effort.tv) and see if you can get a response. I know that he was working with Riot, particularly on the new composite surf kayaks, so he probably will have a good idea of what is going on.

Hey SHerlock!

When you said you could repair Jimb's boat, does this aply to other as well? I have a broken boat and can't get a hold of anyone from Riot... drop me a private msg to tell me where I could get my boat fixed, I'm in Qc...

Thanks! and keep on filing the rumor mill! I'm sitting in front of my PC with pop-corn and soda everytime you type something!

last rumor we got is that the boat carrying the new El cheapo new molded submarines, got attack by Godzilla on is way to uncle sam wherehouse. lol but there again it's only a rumor:) we read on other forums that one kayak got washed away up on a California beach and under the cock pit we can read ( MADE IN CHINA with truthfulness, sincerity, or frankness) ! what's your need in repair?

LoL! nice ones!

I need a weld on the cockpit rim where we fix the thigh-brace... do you work for a store or a company where I could drop off the boat? it's a Magnum '07

Thanks again!

LOL!! you funny pladdler Cookie Teletubie: No im not working for competitions or else... (we) are ex of RIOT.... but you can do it your self if you wish!!! with a good heat gun and some recycle pieces of plastic. and some hard thinking.. easy task..... 10 min job!!!

But i did not see your damage... hard to evaluate???? normaly thigh brace are not hook on cockpit...lol unless you modified your torpedo!!!!

I suggest with this kind of damage, that you should apply your garantie rights that is good for 5 years (replacement)...
on date of purchass.

I suggest also that you to go on the kayakquebec forum site, where the RIOT rep is like the GOD and ONLY truth that The companie is back in bussines like never before and ask him where you can replace your Magnum ( one of the best boat ever built by the way)

Naturally if Riot boats are coming back like the Phoenix? if not? you can email me [mail address protected from spambots with javascript]

And i will organize to get it fix before spring come.... at the same labor price as Riot was charging.. $50 hours....minimum...rates...also no bill!!!

Well the latest news appears to be that Riot will again be shipping new kayaks within a month. Gone are the composites (including the new surf kayaks, gone are the thermoformed rec and touring boats.

The poly boats... whitewater, rec and touring...will remain. Now to wait and see how the quality comes out?

Cheers...Joe O'

OFFICIAL NOTICE (Version française à la suite)

VOODOO TECHNOLOGIES INC &
GESTION VOODOO INC. IN BANKRUPTCY


Good morning!

I am Rock Fournier, speaking for Fournier Auctioneers. We are auctioneers & liquidators in business for 48 years now, going back to 1961 when my late father Gilles Fournier founded the company.

Following a legal call for tenders by Demers Beaulne Inc. trustees in bankruptcy in Montreal, we have been awarded ALL VOODOO’S ASSETS of the Montreal factory located at 3700, St-Patrick St. Door #23. EVERYTHING WILL BE ABSOLUTELY LIQUIDATED within the next 2 weeks

Inventory includes:

±300 finished kayaks (sea, recreational, white water, "sit ons" & demos etc.)
±175 hulls (basics out of the moulds, no trimmings, partly
assembled, or used )
±1000 paddles (sea, white water, 1pc, 2pc, alum., fiber,
etc.)
±200,000.$ (retail value) (seats, skirts, covers, life vests, parts &
components)

All shop tools machinery & equipment featuring:
- The NW gas fired rotation moulding oven
- Yale fork lift truck – propane 5000lb
- Pallet racking
- Storage trailers & containers
- All office equipment & computers

We have taken possession of the premises a couple of days ago and we are in the process of cleaning & organizing the plant, completing precise inventory count & labelling of finished boats, work in process & components.

We shall be advertising very shortly this absolute public sale.

All are welcome: users, paddlers, associations, retailers, builders etc.

Meanwhile we could perhaps use the services of former employees to help us set up & sell these stocks, since knowledge of plant operations would be useful.

We shall indicate daily updates on our website regarding exact quantities & models, photos etc. at www.groupefournier.com (click on Voodoo Kayaks)


THE LIQUIDATION SHALL BE CONDUCTED
DIRECTLY AT THE MONTREAL PLANT FACILITY
AT: 3700 ST-PATRICK, DOOR #23, MONTREAL
Starting Thursday March 19th, 9:00 a.m., regular stores hours,
including Saturday & Sunday
Cash & carry
"First come, first serve!"

Our offices are in Laval: Fournier Encanteurs, Auctioneers
2380, Montée Masson, Laval, (Quebec) H7E 4P2
tel. : 450 666-1251
Rock Fournier, president

P.S. 1 I return all my calls

P.S. 2 It is said that "Riot" has survived and
operates overseas, that may be.

It’s not our concern.
We are not involved.
We are dealing with the actual – physical
Voodoo assets in Montreal

All previous Voodoo history: (corporations, brand names, relocation, creditors etc.) is unknown to us. We are distant of all preceeding activities, as we come into the picture after the bankruptcy

P.S. 3 I hope this sheds some light on the forum
discussions I have read lately

I wish you well


Rock Fournier
E-Mail: [mail address protected from spambots with javascript]


AVIS OFFICIEL

VOODOO TECHNOLOGIES INC &
GESTION VOODOO INC. EN FAILLITE

Bonjour!

Ici Rock Fournier chez Fournier Encanteurs Liquidateurs, fondé par mon père, feu Gilles Fournier, en 1961, il y a 48 ans.

Suite à un appel d’offres du syndic de faillite Demers Beaulne Inc. à Montréal, nous avons acquis TOUS LES ACTIFS DE VOODOO de l’usine de Montréal située au 3700, rue St-Patrick, porte #23. TOUT SERA ABSOLUMENT LIQUIDÉ dans les 2 prochaines semaines.

l’inventaire inclue:

±300 kayaks complets (mer, récréatif, eau vive, "sit ons", démos
etc.)
±175 coques (bateau de base sans garnitures, en
assemblage, usagé, etc.)
±1000 pagaies (mer, eau vive, 1pc, 2pc, alum., fibre
carbone, etc.)
±200,000.$ (détail) (sièges, jupes, couverts, vestes flottaison,
pièces & composantes)

Tous les outils, équipement et machinerie d’atelier incluant :
- Le four au gaz de rotomoulage NW
- Chariot élévateur propane Yale 5000lb
- Tout le "racking"
- Remorque & conteneur d’entreposage
- Tout le mobilier de bureau et ordinateurs.

Nous venons tout juste de prendre possession des lieux. Nous sommes affairés à nettoyer, organiser l’atelier et à effectuer le comptage et l’étiquettage des produits finis et en cours, pièces et composantes.

Nous procéderons sous peu aux annonces de cette vente publique absolue.

Tous sont bienvenus: utilisateurs, pagayeurs, associations, commerçants, constructeurs, etc.,

Entre temps nous pourrions peut-être avoir recours aux services d’un quelconque ex-employé afin de nous aider à préparer et vendre les stocks, puisque la connaissance des opérations serait utile.

Quotidiennement nous mettrons à jour sur notre site web les précisions quant aux quantités, modèles, photos, etc. au www.groupefournier.com (clicker Voodoo Kayaks)




LA LIQUIDATION AURA LIEU DIRECTEMENT SUR PLACE À L’USINE AU: 3700 RUE ST-PATRICK, PORTE #23, MONTRÉAL
Débutant jeudi le 19 mars à 9 :00 a.m.
Heures de commerces régulières incluant samedi et dimanche
Payez et emportez
Premier arrivé, premier servi !

Nos bureaux sont à Laval: Fournier Encanteurs
2380, Montée Masson, Laval, (Québec) H7E 4P2
tél. : 450 666-1251
Rock Fournier, président

P.S. 1 Je retourne tous mes appels

P.S. 2 Il est dit que "Riot" opère outre mer, c’est
possible.

Cela ne nous concerne pas.
Nous ne sommes pas impliqués.
Nous traitons les actifs physiques actuels
de Voodoo à Montréal

Toute l’histoire antérieure de Voodoo : (corporations, raisons sociales, marques de commerce, relocalisation, créanciers etc.) Nous est inconnue. Nous sommes étrangers à toute l’historique puisque nous oeuvrons après la faillite.

P.S. 3 Je souhaite que ceci jette un peu de
lumière sur les forums de discussions
que j’ai lus récemment.

Portez vous bien


Rock Fournier
E-Mail: [mail address protected from spambots with javascript]

Anyone know what sort of prices they're looking at for the boats?

Here's the company's translated page:

translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&h...ier.html&sl=fr&tl=en

MAN do I wish I lived up there. Hate to sound goulish. But if you could walk through a kayak manufacturer's factory and just pick out ANYTHING for dirt cheap...would be like stumbling upon the kayak garage in Santa's Workshop or something. Some slick looking boats there, too--probably stuff not available to the open market customer. Damn.