Im killing time here and thought id spark up some talk.

When do you all out there make the decision to bail? Do you just wait until you need to breathe or after x ammt of roll attempts?

Personally I judge it on avalible air time...once Im out, Im out!

When I stop believing I can roll I bail, when I stop believing I stop being able to perform... but every time I pull that handle on the skirt I start regreting it and second guessing my decision. And usually I swim in the flat sections, not the gnarly stuff

My last 4 swims have been to get out of sticky ledge-holes. Based on these experiences I pull the deck when I've been fighting and trying to get out of the hole long enough that it

a) becomes evident that I'm not getting out of the hole in my boat

b) I'm getting exhausted and the situation a) seems likely

I haven't failed to roll in a long time, but I'm pretty good at getting situations where the wet exit seems the be the only change to get out of

When I run out of breath and cannot be bothered to attempt to roll again (or when i am drowning)

I generally hang in as long as possible. When I have no air it is time to swim.

I have never had to swim... that is crazy talk.

Seriously, I will usually only bail when I am out of breath.

I only bail when I'm either out of breath or I no I'm not gonna be able to roll up I.e pinned against a rock upside down or somenumpty decided it was a good idea to hold me down upside down.
Heres a good example of determination (its not me)

It depends on the temperature of the water and what gear I have on to wet exit. I don't know if you've read 'Birthplace of the Four Winds' but the wet exit in one of the beginning chapters was humorous. Four kayakers in two doubles were kayaking in the Aleutian Island (average temp. 29 F) when a wave knocked one kayak over. This pair of kayakers had a system: knock on the boat and they will try to execute a roll from upside down. The first kayaker had already wet exited while the other was patiently waiting. I think he waited around a minute.

some good comments...
I try to 'have my wits' about me... meaning - can I roll here? even 4th or 5th attempt? am I pinned, rock or hydraulically? etc.

Can I 'catch a breath'? - I've done that many times - a poor roll with the idea of getting my head out and getting a good breath in... then setting up properly...

I agree with the comments that you don't want to be completely wasted when you pull... swims can take a lot out of someone.

When I say 'have my wits' I mean - as mentioned below, is it pool drop? is there a rapid below I'd REALLY rather not swim? Are my buddies close? T-rescue or quick salvage recovery, or long alone time in the water?

Always remember, it might be freaky being upside down and struggling, but punching out will put you 'in a whole new world of hell' ...

I've actually consciously thought 'gotta pull', and then thought 'NO! new hell awaits, try again!\"...

The way I look a it is every roll I miss, brings me closer to the one I will make. With that said... if I am trapped in a hydrolic and can't get out, I give myself some breathing room for the swim. If you are exhausted and can't self rescue, you may also endanger the lives of others.

Peace,
Boe

Water temperature is really annoying and affects how long I can hold my breath underwater alot, especially when you live in the U.K and you need an icebreaking extension on the front of your boat even in the middle of summer.

in last 39 years I have found some of the Other things that can affect the decision to punch out besides lack of remaining air in lungs. I'm not particularly proud to have found some of them, but I am still here and still paddleing through some degree and combination of skill, determination, or sheer dumb luck.

broken bones - amazing how distracting and limiting things like a broken nose can be, or broken ribs, fingers, or collarbone.

Dislocated shoulder - never happened to me but I've been there for others when they did theirs. K1ers rarely roll with dislocated joints, C1ers almost never do. Have dislocated two fingers, and jammed two others which can also be distracting.

seeing a significant strainer downstream - Can be an incentive to roll, but can also increase the get out of here now and let the boat worry about itself syndrome.

Knowing you are imminently about to go over a really bad drop or series of same. If you can't get it back up, sometimes, (not always) it seems preferrable to get out and assume a safer swimming configuration, AKA the rocking chair position.

Knowing you are about to go into or have already gone into a real keeper of a hydrallic that you might better swim deep out of. Almost always last resort. Did once after over 5 minutes being pummeled in hole and thought it preferrable to being rammed out by raft. Later saw kayaker run over by 3 rafts and still stay in hole. Boats come out of some holes easier with out a driver in them too as a consolation for having to swim.

gear failure - Nothing like having the boat develop a serious structural failure beyond the simple puncture. Rule of thumb - when you see your float bags going downstream faster than you are, if might be time to punch.

Another occasion is when your back band slips and you fall out beyond the seat and can't pull / twitch yourself back in. Haven't managed to roll sitting on the back deck yet. Not saying it can't be done, I'm sure someone can, but I can't. Did I mention that I NOW have a new wider gripping back band and have added another inch of minicell to both sides of the hips areas of my boat. Cut a 3\" block of Minicell into an\"L\" and glued it in to give me more of a ledge to lock my hips under. Not TOO tight to get out of, but coming out is not accidental anymore.

4 me it def depends wats not far ahead...the less severe the water ahead is the more il continue to try roll+i will get up, but if theres a nasty drop or sometnin just down stream il pull out alot quicker!