First just wanted to say a quick hello to everyone A couple weeks ago I finally got around to taking a kayaking class (have been wanting to for a couple years now) in Jackson, MI... originally from SE Michigan, but am finishing up my last year at Michigan State University. Needless to say, after the class I was hooked, and consequently I'm doing everything I can to budget for a boat to be able to really get into the sport.

Ideally I'd love to get into whitewater, but due to my living in Michigan, and having another 4-5 years of (Pharmacy) school ahead of me, that'll have to wait. Regardless, I'd like to pick up something that can both be used on all the calm rivers/lakes throughout MI, but also on some of the quicker rivers here (Pine River near Manistee, and the Paint river in the upper peninsula)... and wouldn't have a problem taking a quick weekend trip out of state. I've done some research, albeit very briefly, and found the Dagger Approach looking like it would suit my needs, however I'm unsure if it'd be a bit too big for my size. I'm roughly 5' 10\" and hovering around 170 lbs.

If any of you could give comment on the Approach or any other all around boat I'd greatly appreciate it.

Thanks

That seems like a good first boat... Personally I would keep looking as there are plenty of kayaks out there. I would look for a good creeker...

Also since there will be plenty of flat H20 over there, you might want to buy a playboat so you can learn to do some fun stuff without having to travel to a running river...

If you are going to be making trips to the UP drop me a line...Ill drive up there to do some paddling... Also if you ever feel like making a trip to Wausau Wi we havae a first rate course downtown...

Glad you are getting into the sport... keep on paddling

Well I guess that still begs the question... do I go the \"safe\" route and pick up an all around rec. kayak thats well suited for all the flat water here in MI, or do I pick up a smaller river/creek boat that isn't quite the best for Michigan waters, but what I ultimately want to get into (plan on moving out of MI once I'm out of school)?

Can anyone recommend rec. boats similar to the Dagger Approach that can also handle rapids without much problem (read of a few people using it on Class III's with ease).... or perhaps a river/creek boat that tracks well and wouldn't be too out of place on Michigan's mostly flat water??

As far as playboating... it's something I'd be interested in trying, but not at the present moment.

And Laddie, I'll be sure to keep you in mind on any future trips - - with the way work has been, it seems unlikely that it'll be any time soon, but who knows

In the kayaking club we generly tell people not to buy a boat for the first two years. It takes time to figure out what kind of padeling you like, then match your boat to your padeling. If you can join a club, club boats are the way to start.

listen to what nitrodude has said. But if you must buy a boat, I'd suggest something cheap and 2nd hand, due to the same reason nitrodude said not to even buy one. If you only want something for mainly flat water for now, if you could find an old Dagger RPM (It's a bit older and therefore cheaper) or something it's not too bad on the flat, and can handle whitewater with a decent spraydeck.

Pishk wrote:

listen to what nitrodude has said. But if you must buy a boat, I'd suggest something cheap and 2nd hand, due to the same reason nitrodude said not to even buy one. If you only want something for mainly flat water for now, if you could find an old Dagger RPM (It's a bit older and therefore cheaper) or something it's not too bad on the flat, and can handle whitewater with a decent spraydeck.

Kind of funny you mention that - - came across someone selling their RPM about an hour away from me, and hopefully can check it out sometime soon, and still have to make the decision on what to do

Quite honestly I don't find myself paddling on flat water for countless hours, just quick day trips across MI to whatever quicker rivers I can find... and whatever out-of-state road trips I find myself on.
The price of the boat is very reasonable (assuming its in good condition like he says).

I also came across a Dagger Blackwater not too far away either - - still waiting to hear back on the specifics, and again, the price is very reasonable.

While I greatly respect nitrodude's comment to hold off for a couple years, I've never been one to hold off and wait for something. With both price points being where they are at, it almost makes sense to buy the boat rather than have to pay rental fees whenever I want to go out.

So now the question still remains - - should I lean towards the boat thats geared for what I ultimately want to get into (the RPM), or go for the one that is better suited for my current location (Blackwater), but plan on moving once I'm done with school?

Please feel free to twist my arm... or call me a dumbass, whichever works fine

RPM

if you see yourself paddling any rivers or the chance to get out into some rougher stuff get the rpm...plus it will paddle just fine on flatwater. You can learn to brace, roll, skull etc if you are just looking to get out and whenever whitewater trips come up you can go...



just my:2cents:

Have somewhat made up my mind on the route to go, but was hoping I could get some feedback... always over-think everything and sometimes just need a few other opinions to set me straight.

Here's the basics:

Blackwater 11.5 - includes paddle, sprayskirt, PFD, all by Harmony. $400 firm for everything. Dilemma: I'm 175 lbs, he's 225, most likely none of the gear would fit well (with the exception of the paddle maybe).

RPM - $300 for the boat and float bags only.

Both are within 1.5 hours away, unfortunately in the opposite direction, so checking them both out in person would be a PITA.

I'm thinking that it'd be better to go w/ the RPM and then buy the gear I decide, rather than buying the Blackwater and having to worry about selling his gear (assuming it doesn't fit) to fund gear for me.

Anyone care to comment on my thought process... rational? smart move?


Many thanks for putting up w/ this newb

Like I posted earlier. get the RPM and you can pick up a paddle, PFD, Skirt and helmet of YOUR choosing. having somewhat fitting gear is a BIG BIG BIG hassle. Plus if you are anything like me you will want your OWN gear.

When it comes to the specifics on gear, you can get exactly what you are looking for and on your own terms.

once again, my two cents

Obviously I am partial to whitewater but I think as far as paddling goes... you can paddle flatwater easily in an RPM... Doesnt work the other way around.

Post back with what you decide on doing...

Dagger Approach is great for what it is, but I'm 5'11 @ 230lb and it's even feels too big for me! Perhaps I'll be an outlier here, but what about something like a liquid logic Pisgah or another ~13-14ft tour yak that can handle class I-II water? If you'll be in school for another few years, I'd get something that will suit you now. Tracks/turns well on river and can handle day/weekend trips etc. If you can learn to roll/maneuver a longer yak, WW should come much easier down the road.

Aaron

Laddie,

Definitely makes sense and pretty much what I was thinking all along - - I have plans to head out tomorrow evening and check out the RPM.... knowing the way I am I'll probably end up picking it up. And rather conveniently, theres a nice shop close to where I'll be picking up the kayak to check out all the other gear.
I'll post back tomorrow night and let you know the end result.

As for looking to get a liquid logic or similar boat... it's a nice idea but have two things working against me - - #1 I've been searching online and by word of mouth for ANY kayaks in the near vicinity, and have found very little (these two, plus a handful of other playboats). #2 I'm not one for patience and don't feel like waiting for something else to show up - - not to mention Im planning on taking a vacation in two weeks and would like to have a boat with me at the time

Well ended up buying the RPM - - a bit dusty and typical scratches, but overall in great condition. $325 for the boat, float bags, pro tec helmet (almost brand new), and he threw in an older harmony lc1 skirt. Most likely will be needing to pick up a new skirt - - this one has a couple tiny holes in it, and might just be a smidge too large (will have to see when I get in the water with it)... unfortunately I'm right on the border for the skirt sizing (between M and L). Even so its good enough for now to get me going.

Aside from that, just need to pick up a paddle and vest and I'm good to go

Speaking of which, any recommendations for a paddle/vest that I should look into?

Good to hear you picked up the RPM. It will be good to learn to roll in and get some support strokes and such. It can handle some decent whitewater as well once you're up to that stage. But it's a good beginners boat. Once your skills progress and your ready to move onto a newer kayak, you can always keep the RPM to use as a teaching tool should you ever want to get anybody else involved in the sport.

As for PFD's and helmets, just make sure you get quality stuff that will give you the protection you need.

I'd say get a decent paddle that will help you learn and one that gives you a good feel when your paddling and using support strokes. I wouldn't go all out on a paddle at this stage either. As a beginner it's likely you'll take some swims, and if this happens and you let go of your paddle you risk losing it. So you don't want to shell out too much for it.

Just remember, as you develop your skills, you'll most likely move onto another kayak, but you can take the rest of your gear (paddle, PFD, helmet, throw bags etc.) in any kayak, so get decent stuff! Don't skimp on safety equipment !

And Good Luck!

Seems like a standard intro WW paddle would be the Werner Rio. Hard to go wrong with Werner in general. I think mine was ~$125. I plan on keeping it until I feel it is constraining my performance (that will be awhile!).

CONGRATS!!!!!

Welcome to the addiction:dance:

As far as the other gear goes... Hmmm

Well finances are a big part as I remember...

PFD: I would encourage you to not skimp too much here. Any type 3 PFD, they sell rather good vest style extrasport's at Gander Mountain...might want to start there. If you want to go all out I recomend an Astral...

Paddle: I would just make sure that you are buying a ww paddle... As far as feather and shaft length goes. It is up to you... Good guess would be 194-197 with 30deg feather... just keep an eye out and take it from there... if you want something really nice check out www.wavedogpaddles.com I just ordered a paddle from there... I am psyched really nice paddles and SUPER LIGHT which is interesting for a wood paddle! The Werner Sho-Gun (Full Carbon Fibre) weighs 38 oz, The Wavedog Golden (wood) weighs 46 oz!!!

Keep an eye out on the different message boards for a used paddle or it is not too bad to buy a new paddle... you can pick up an Aqua Bound brand new for about $100

I am way happy for you... I promise that you wont be dissapointed with your purchase... and remember if you are making trips up to Da-U-P. Drop me a line... Ill go paddle with ya!