I'm pretty new to kayaking and bought a Perception Enduro a couple of months ago. If nobody is familiar with the boat, it is one of the "hybrids" built for both flatwater and mild whitewater. Yes, I imagine many readers sneering right now. It's not GREAT for whitewhater, nor is it GREAT for touring. Longish boat (12' 9") with flat bottom and no keel, but a retractable skeg. It took a lot of patience but I'm now able to track in it with little effort. I've also run the local 'rapids' and was damn glad I had such a maneuverable boat. Basically the gist is that I am a new paddler, young, not rich, want to maximize my paddling options, and currently live in Michigan where there is no whitewater. I live in an area where I can put in my boat 200 feet from my apartment door on a nice little river, or drive 15 minutes for plenty of small lake boating, or a bit further for great lakes boating.

Enough of my life story then...


It's getting cold up here and so I'm looking into getting a drytop so that I can keep paddling until everything (and believe me EVERYTHING) freezes over. I tried on some NRS dry and semi-dry tops at a store and was told that basically the semi-dry tops were useless, and that gaskets were absolutely necessary. The latex neck gasket just about asphyxiated me right then and there, and despite the store clerk informing me that you can trim them down, I'm a bit put off by them. The wrists don't bother me at all. Looking online I found some alternatives but I figured this forum would be a good place to get advice on the issue. One top that has intrigued me is the Bombergear Kai semi-dry (you can find info online). It seems billed as a great alternative for those who roll infrequently and hate the latex neck gaskets. Since I am looking for something along those lines I was wondering if anyone had comments about it, or the company in general (whom I have read are bad w/ service issues). I've also seen several tops with neoprene gaskets rather than latex, and thought that would be more comfortable.

The semi-dry tops are less expensive generally and comfort seems to be the big advantage, but just HOW dry are they? Will it be enough in cold-ass water? How much do they leak when you find yourself submerged? Is it best to have one 'comfy' splash top and another (expensive) hardcore dry-top? I'm looking for a compromise.

I know NOTHING and could really use the advice. Cheers.

if you are going to run white water, or any moving water even, you are going to roll. if you are going to kayak in freezing conditions you are going to get cold when wet so I would say that the choaking latex gasket is optimal for you.

in my experience, white water in Iceland (rolling in cold conditions), is that you buy a dry top and if you want it dry you don´t cut the gasket and even try not to strech it too much. I guess if you feel like you are turning blue a lot you could strech the gasket gently over night or few days. cutting it is not a very nice option because a) you might make it easyer to rip which will make you and 2) you might feal that as you use it, it streches and becomes too loose and then you loose and you will feal like . so just take one big breath and get in to the tight latex and I promisse you will have a lot of fun

Thanks for the advice. Maybe I just have a big neck. Do you have any experience with non-latex gaskets? I'd be interested in hearing a comparison. Also, just HOW wet would you get with a semi-dry top? Perhaps I am naive but from what I've heard so far, I'm wondering why companies bother producing them.

Does anyone else want to weigh in with their opinions? The more info the better.

I have a yak keevo semi-dry top that is about a year old now. The neoprene neck seemed pretty tight when I got it but now its getting pretty slack (the latex wrists aren't as tight either). It doesn't really fill with water but you get damp enough to start getting seriously cold. I have to rely on rash-vest, fleece and sleeveless wetsuit to keep me warm and thats just the british winter. You should probably go with the latex.

I use a long john and one or two thermick shirts. over this i where a jacket with latex on the sleeves and a neopreen neck. For the Belgian or German winter, it is enough. And when u do most of your time flatwater, i think this will be enough for u to. We go kayaking when there is water and when we are allowed by the governement . so if we may go, we go. freezing or not.
u can also use a spraydeck in your jacket (that warmer and u pay more for it). i've never tryed that because i'm a low budget kayaker
The drytops are good for very cold conditions i noticed, but if it is a little bit warmer they could be dangerous for overheeting .

Given that you're someplace where it's cold, you'll want to spend the extra on Gore-Tex or its equivalent- because gore-tex breathes most effectively when the thermal gradient across the membrane (read: really cold outside but body temperature inside) it'll make a big difference to have a drytop that breathes- when it's cold out, the difference between being dry inside your shell and not is the difference between being happy and dangerously miserable.

Alas, although they do make neoprene gaskets, they are less sealant, unless they are more constrictive. Latex is the only real option for a dry top. ...and a semi-dry top is useless when it's cold. You'd do better to pour water down your back in the comfort of your home.

There's good news, however: that 'choking' feeling (where your eyes bug out ever so slightly) goes away very quickly- it's a particular experience you have with a new gasket, which goes away once the gasket has stretched a bit. After it's been used a while, it will be un-noticeable, just like the collar on your shirt, if a little rubbery. A common technique is to get a cylinder-shaped object (like a scuba tank or a fire extinguisher or an oatmeal container) about the thickness of your neck and leave the gasket on it for a couple days to stretch. A less-desirable method is to trim the inside of the gasket- the danger is that once the latex stretches/relaxes, that it'll leak.

Your neck may or may not be thicker than average; your experience of eye-bugging hate and discontent, however, is normal. Stretch the latex, you won't regret it.

Thanks for all of the help guys. I actually ended up getting the Bomber Gear Kai semi-dry anyways. Just got it this weekend. I can see the advantage of having the latex gasket, but this winter I doubt that I will be rolling much (no real whitewater around). It was just a good deal ($140 US on the internet) that fit my needs at the moment. And honestly, I'd have to say that it has a good enough neck seal for my purposes. It was pretty nasty out this saturday, but I wanted to try the thing out so I got out on the water anyways. The latex wrists are totally dry, no doubt about that. I summoned the courage to do a few rolls (I've only just become proficient at an indoor pool, the water I was on was pretty cold), and it was really pretty good. Just a seep, not even noticeable hardly until I took it off.

I think I know what you mean with the latex becoming more comfortable. When I pulled the top out of the box and tried it on it was nothing short of an epic battle to get my hands through the wrist gaskets. However, the next time it was a piece of cake. For the cost and the type of paddling I'll be doing for a while, it seems to be a great fit.

I've had my Bomber Kai semi-dry for about six months now -- you're lucky you must have a thicker neck. With winter on the way, I'm currently using a Body Glove collared 2mm neo hood attached to a very thin .5mm neo shirt. I actually haven't needed the hood part yet, so it just stays bunched up on the back of neck, but the neck part helps mine seal better -- here's what might be a much better, more comfy addition:

www.nrsweb.com/shop/product.asp?pfid=2029

For Semi-Dry I would look at the IR Competition at $250 and the Palm Apex at $199. They seem to be the best for the semi-dry top out there.
For Full conditions look at the IR full conditions at $315 and the Palm extream at $299.
It seems to me that you are going to need to get a full conditions for your neck of the woods, but you could get away with a semi-dry and some fleece or wool layers underneth your top. You will need to get some base layers anyway because a drytop doesn't insulate they are only designed to keep you dry. Let me know if you have any questions. Gavin
www.alabamasmallboats.com