Multi-day self-support is a problem with modern river-running kayaks owing to lack of storage space. After experimentation, here is a solution requiring nothing more than a barrel and a strap.

[img]images/diy/hauling-1.jpg[/img]
Attaching the strap to the barrel.

The strap goes around the barrel below the lid and back through the buckle. The remaining strap goes through the end-loop and is then tensioned and tied off with a quick release knot to one on the kayak's anchor points (see photos 1-5).

[img]images/diy/hauling-2.jpg[/img]
Strap going through the end-loop (keeping the barrel lid
out of the water).

The system works best with big barrels (60 l minimum and over). Balancing is all-important - the best solution seems to be putting the heavier items at the lid end of the barrel which pushes the back deck of the kayak down (flush or below the water) allowing the barrel to lie flatish and minimise drag. The kayak is nose high. If you get is right - the first 3 strokes are horrible, then real smooth with the feeling that the barrel is pushing you forwards in-between strokes. If you dont feel that it is probably not set-up right or not going to work at all. If you do this well drag is minimal and you even pick up momentum and directional stability (like having a rudder). The system works better on some kayaks than others (end loop type and position) - it works particularly well on swallow-tail kayaks - but any flat back deck kayak can be made to fit snugly by gluing foam to the barrel. Obviously acceleration and turning is impeded.

[img]images/diy/hauling-3.jpg[/img]
Quick-release knot.

This system is intended for long remote multi-day trips where there are long stretches of flat but moving water to travel. In rapids, the barrel can be quick released to 'go it alone' or portaged separately (eg for nasty headwall rapids with strong eddies where it could get stuck).

Obviously, rolling is somewhat less fluid than without the barrel but absolutely possible - use a front deck 'good old-fashioned' screw roll.

[img]images/diy/hauling-4.jpg[/img]
The overall system.

There are several advantages to this system:
(1) the kayak can be kept light for better performance in rapids;
(2) the kayak does not need to be repeatedly unpacked for stop
and play, portaging or overnighting;
(3) less likelyhood of hurting your back lifting overheavy kayaks;
(4) for longer trips buy a bigger barrel not a bigger kayak;
(5) you can take your high performance kayak with you rather than a 'barge';
(6) amazingly cheap - total system cost me CHF 25.

It is NOT suitable for all rivers, eg rocky, technical or with 'continuous' grade IV and over rapids.

[img]images/diy/hauling-5.jpg[/img]
Kayak in towing position (note that the barrel lies much flatter when in the water).

This system may look cumbersome but it works - try it and you'll see.

Ian

PS: sorry if somebody already invented this towing method - I searched on the web but found nothing.

I have 2 possible alternatives for you.

Con a mate into paddling down a 2-man inflatable raft that can carry your gear.

Or buy some light weight gear that also will take up a LOT LESS space. A good sleeping bag can already save heaps of space.

I would toss that barrel from a safety point of view. One could argue the point ad nauseum but at the end of the day, anything that hinders your paddling in any way is not a good idea. Accidents happen even in class 1 rapids. That sling could also be a danger what if the barrel gets caught and the water pressure doesn't allow you to get to the knot. Take a swiftwater rescue course if you don't beleive me as to how powerful water can be when you aren't moving:!:

But hey, who am I. Each to his own. Just my worth...
Be safe and have fun mate. Cheers

Why?

If you are paddling on long stretches of flat water then maybe your not best suited to taking a low volume playboat with you. Just on comfort grounds alone!

If you let the barrel go in rapids then you can't really rip it up on a wave as your provisions are disappearing off downstream.

Try out an open canoe, you can fit your barrel in that easy. Or a sea kayak there's even one on the market which has a space for a barrel on the stern deck.

I've done quite a bit of multi day triping myself and won't be buying a barrel anytime soon.

I am completley speechless! read the post 5 times are you serious or is this a joke? What grade did you try this on? did anyone go wih you? Sorry I am not having a go or anything but it is the crazist thing I think I have ever seen.

If you have to take a roll how does it act? god that thing could knock you out cold, you could even get gerotted on the strap or your paddle caught I notice you had a quick release knot, does it work when wet? my webbed straps are a nightmare when wet.

Anyway good luck to ya, really hope it works out for you, personally for longer trips I will stick to a bigger boat.

Well I see both points of view, pro and con. I see how this would work under certain circumstances. People are often fast to judge a new concept, especially if it is misunderstood. So here is how I see this working and not working.

Working:
Like the gentleman said, you use it in moving water. We all interpret this in our own way. How would it work? I'd say class I & II easily. Class III+ doubtfully. One way to handle the more difficult rapids is that if you have scouted the river well enough you may be able to split into two groups, and just send the barrel down on its own to be brought in by the first group. Is it worth the risk? Depends on the river. Some it may work, some it may not.

Not Working:
More ways than anyone can imagine, which is the biggest problem. The biggest challenge for me would be the ruddering effect that he speaks of. If I wanted a boat that had a rudder I would go down in a sea kayak. How does this effect an Eskimo roll?

In conclusion, I wouldn't mess with it. I like the concept of, \"Keep it simple, stupid.\" I don't like variable, especially on long trips. If people can kayak the Tsanpo River with kayaks I don't see why we need a shorter boat with a barrel. I believe that you would get better performance from a longer boat, without the barrel. Though it could be fun sending the barrel down the river I see it as a hazard to other paddlers and that is the #1 reason I would not do this.

Anyhow, I pretty much strongly disagree. I think this is a bad idea; I tried to give it chance but no dice.

Peace,
Whitewaterules

not really sure if you are jokin gor not...

anyway..the barrel isn't the best idea but does work on very easy water...

better (if necessary) to tie a drybag on top of your boatdeck...this usually will still let you easily roll and wont take much of the boat maneuverability...

but mainly, take the right boat (big size), pack very very carefully and a 10-14day trip should be possible (still depending on what type of food you carry)....

the way you tied the raft with the 'funny' know...uhm:think: ..not sure if i would want to do/try it...even as i have some barrels myself..

Wow that was quick. Has anyone who commented actually tried it yet??

Clarifying a bit - on rapids the barrel should be either sent down alone or portaged. If you can run the rapid without inspection then you can probably float the barrel down alone; if you need to inspect, then portage the barrel in the process. Towing the barrel should only be done on the flat water parts - if you capsize on grade I-II you probably shouldn't be on the trip anyway. If you want to stop and play - drop the barrel into the eddy or on the bank or just take a quick surf and catch it up.

What is more dangerous: paddling a heavily laden barge down a big rapid or a light, responsive, manoeuverable boat with no gear in it?

Floating the barrel alone is unlikely to endanger other boaters because usually there are not many of them in the wilderness - thats why we go there.

Note that I plan using a barrel on long trips on big rivers where there are long flat bits between rapids - rivers like the Sun Kosi, Coruh, Grand Canyon etc. Lets face it, over 90% of the classic wilderness trips are flat water stretches - however, these are the bits that dont tend to make it onto photo pages of magazines and websites.

When paddling the flat and by adjusting the strap tension and weight distribution you can get a lot of 'push' back off the barrel. Obviously when you are towing, the kayak is not highly manoeuverable but so what on grade I-II. It is a bit like adjusting the weight distribution on a trailer to get the best performance.

I have tested this technique and it works, but never claimed this was the optimum or ONLY solution for ALL wilderness river trips.

Dont knock it till you've tried it - then slag me off properly.

Ian Beecroft

PS: wont work with small barrels (<60 l) - too much drag.
PPS: for quicker release, install a cleat on the kayak.

I firmly beleive that sending a barel down the river is iresponsible and a danger to other paddlers. The truth is you DON'T know who is downriver from you and you must never assume that you are in control, the river is in control. It is also litering if it is lost. Too many variable which our perceptions and imagination cannot fathom. Why whould you need a performance boat for the type of paddling you say you use it for. I'd take a larger boat anyday. I don't see the need for a smaller (performance) boat on the type of river you say you would use this for. Sir, you must NEVER send a barrel down a river, it is a danger to others and that's a fact.

:stop:Yikes,
Whitewateruels

I dispute this - just because a barrel is floating alone doesn't mean you cant stay nearby, keep an eye on it, or nudge it in the right direction once in a while. Because it contains your gear and food, there is every reason not to lose it. As back-up, keep a small survival pack in the kayak too. Realistically there is not much chance that a stray barrel (plus its contents) would make it down to the Indian ocean without being recycled on route by deserving locals.

Re safety, on previous (non-barrel) multi-day wilderness trips on the Chatkal Kirgizstan, Coruh Turkey, Sun Kosi/Tamur Nepal, Ganges India, Kali India, Zanskar/Indus India I never saw ANY other boaters or rafters during the entire descents. So the probability of hurting somebody with a stray barrel is minimal and probably correctness gone crazy.

Realistically I think there is much more chance getting hurt at a crowded playspot or rafting river than by what I am proposing here.

In terms of the environment, encouraging your government to get on-board with Kyoto would probably be more meaningful, but obviously I am not a wise man.

Neil - ever tried flying to Kathmandu (or anywhere) with a sea-kayak??

To each his own... I guess. If it works well for you and you understand and minimize the risks, then good for you.
But out of the rivers you mentioned, I have been on the Chatkal in Kirgistan and the Coruh in Turkey. Neither of them I would even come near with anything tied on to the kayak!!!
Coruh is easily accessible by support vehicle at almost any point anyway (unless you are talking about a different stretch of the river...). Plus the water is big and pushy stretches are long (water depending on the season). On the Chatkal (this one IS remote and inaccessible) - the rapids are even longer and action more continuous. Added the difficulty of scouting that I will never forget... I wouldn’t want to be there with anything that I have to portage at every obstacle!
Croft, did you actually paddle those WITH the barrel?

Nope my barrel testing has been done on the upper Rhone in Switzerland (my local river). I was just citing the other rivers as suitable examples as to why you would not put \"other paddlers\" at risk (which was Whitewaterrules concern). When I paddled these (Chatkal in 1991, Coruh in 1994) we had Russian Catamaran (Sergei Popov and Geosoft) and bank (Dave Manby) support, respectively. At the levels we paddled (which was medium I guess) I personally wouldn't have any problems using/trying the barrel method. In my first posting I said you would not want to be doing 'continuous' grade IV and over with a barrel and I stand by that. Probably sectors of the Chatkal and Coruh in high water would fall into that category. Anyway I'm off to Nepal shortly so I'll see how I get-on. Thanks for not dismissing this idea out of hand without even trying it out - I can assure you that the towing is suprisingly good if you get things set-up right. I believe that in the right (but not all) circumstances it can be a good technique. I suffered from back problems in the past and really hate having a heavy boat.

I just threw this out as an idea after successful testing and am a bit gobsmacked by the instant dismissal of many. I have been paddling white water for over 30 years and hate the idea of cramming a kayak full of gear and then risk running out of food should there be any kind of hitch - as apparently happened on 2 self-support trips on the Tsarap Chu this summer.

I would draw an analogy with sack-hauling in mountaineering - which is certainly not elegant but enables the climber to move unrestricted by weight when the going gets tough.

Ian Beecroft

seems to me I have seen a similar set up used by cat rafts - but these are much larger boats, and the hazard of having a barrel about you in the water is reduced.

I understad the concept, and have used the hauling system while climbing - but in the water there are just so many more dynamics - not too sure that the analagy is accurate for that reason.

Good luck (and kindly stay DOWN river of where we might be playing!)

Thanks Chris71 - but please be assured that there was never the intension to try this near busy playspots - where self-support would generally be meaningless in any case - when you are only a stretch limo away from the nearest PizzaHut.

Have you tried this with any other boats? I notice the back end of your's seems to suit the shape of the barrel, giving it somewhere nice to sit. But how would it fair attachetd to other boats with a different shaped stern?

For me it looks like a feasible solution on remote big water pool/drop rivers. As pointed out, I would be super sure to be able to release the cargo on command.

Thanks Stewy - you are correct the I4 is already the perfect shape to take a barrel. As I mention in my first posting - you can overcome different shaped sterns by gluing (2 bits of) foam to the barrel to make it fit nicely and minimise wobble - best - ian

Thanks Tuomas - You have clearly understood what I am trying to say. I am currently putting together a 'cleat' quick release system which could be positioned just to the rear and one side of the cockpit. You can also add a safety 'fuse' by looping in fixed breaking-strain cord - I was thinking of 100 kg - anybody got a better suggestion? Ian

where you are right...

most big volume rivers (anywhere) have a pool drop character...just as any matured river...

the barrel wont hurt anyone...you usually should keep you eyes open for things coming from upstream and not expecting things to be done correctly upstream

it fits a lot of stuff...

where you are wrong (in my opinion)...

the barrel can get lost...
it is difficult to tow the barrel (i believe i have had a lot of swimmers, gear and other things hanging on my kayak during rescues) and it will slow your directional intentions down...

i think it is easier (by experience) to stuff my boat full and still have way more control then with something in tow..

i have done a trip down a lower (grad II with 2 grade IV) section of the kali with a barrel strapped on top of the boat and tied to my back...still possible to roll!..i believe you can roll with your system too but the barrel might roll around and the rope will get in your way...

i have also kayaked rivers (Grade IV sections) with a drybag on my back...this i personally believe is unresponsible to your own security but had to be done at that time....

there's a lot of wilderness rivers (siberia, tadjikistan, pakistan, india, nepal) i have done and many of them had 10days selfsupport in it...the loaded boat is in my opinion the only safe way...

basiacally everything is possible...from solo wilderness decents on difficult rivers towing barrels for 100s of kms....but most of them i believe are irresponsible and should be left to each own's decision at the time...

i wouldn't want to tell anyone, that carrying a 60l barrel with a tow system down the sun koshi (believe me, big rafting companies with experienced safety kayakers during medium/high flow of the river are still loosing equipment..e.g kitchen barrels, raft oars etc., etc.,..>and there are people set for safety?)....and this definately is a pool drop river with decently easy rapids and looooong flat stretches..

Thanks for this thoughtful response shivaoutdoors. Effectively towing/floating a barrel has certain risks and dangers involved - but so does paddling a heavily overloaded sluggish kayak (or submarine). Like most things in life, the perfect solution probably does not exist.

Over the years have heard (true?) stories of cooking pans on heads and gear stored between the legs when trying to cram everything into a kayak.

Anyway, now realised the need to go back to the drawing board with all these suggestions - effectively the attachment system I proposed only works well on swallow (or flat) tail kayaks - and even then getting the balance just right is a bit fiddly. Will report back if I find a good solution.

To clarify how I would envisage working with a barrel:
Grade I-II - tow barrel
Grade III - free-float barrel - but following it like a sheepdog (exception headwall rapids)
Grade IV and over - portage barrel

Have paddled quite a number of classic wilderness rivers (with support) but more often in low water conditions. Certainly would not think of taking a barrel post-monsoon on the SK.

Hopefully someday on a wilderness river somewhere, I will be the one with a barrel parked-up on the bank whilst ripping into the perfect wilderness wave - smirking to myself as the heavily charged kayaks trundle past. In my dreams?

Thanks to everyone who has given feedback on this proposal.

Ian

Summary of Pro and Contra of Barrel system to date based on this forum (not in order of importance):

Pro
(1) the kayak can be kept light for better performance/safety in rapids;
(2) the kayak does not need to be repeatedly unpacked for stop
and play, portaging or overnighting;
(3) less likelyhood of hurting your back lifting overheavy kayaks;
(4) for longer trips buy a bigger barrel not a bigger kayak;
(5) allows for taking extra rations/gear for emergencies;
(6) you can take your river running kayak with you rather than a big boat - easier to fly-in;
(7) cheap - easily available compontents;
( Gear split in 2 places (boat and barrel) - less risk of losing everything.

Contra
(1) risk of losing barrel;
(2) risk of hurting other river users (minimal in wilderness);
(3) added risk of having 'anything' attached to kayak on a river - automated and quick-release imperfect.
(4) not suitable on all rivers (eg continuous ww, technical, log infested etc.)
(5) towing set-up is fiddly to adjust and balance;
(6) drags more than a bigger boat;
(7) impaired stearing and acceleration (only applies on flat bits);
( rolling impaired plus added risk of self-injury (clutter);
(9) looks stupid and inhibits aerial moves (joke! - please dont blow my karma any lower or I wont sleep tonight);
(10) if you should swim (on III - see above) you have 3 separate things to worry about - paddle, boat and barrel

Did I forget anything?

Barrel-hauling improvement

After trying-out on other (non-swallow-tail) kayaks the system has been improved as below:



This gives better stability and adjustability to the rig and only adds a karabiner to the hardwear required (not needed for lateral end-loops). Again stressing that to minimise drag you should weight the barrel lid-end heavy so that the kayak is nose up/tail down - and the barrel lies as flat as possible. Another tip - before fixing the strap around the barrel - see how the barrel lies in the water and position the strap accordingly - so that you are not fighting gravity.

Even the sceptics may want to take note of this coz, even if you dont want to barrel-haul on your trips, one day you might need to in an emergency.

Croft wrote:

but so does paddling a heavily overloaded sluggish kayak (or submarine).

But surely people would take into account the paddler weight reccomendations from the manufacturers?

For example,

I will fit perfectly into the Jackson Hero (Judging by my weight and inseam and feet compared to the stuff on there site) But I am at the max of the limits. Therefore I would go for the one above because I can add the kit in and still have room.

I just see the Barrel to be somehting that could cause a huge hinderance some time.

I know you have tested it but I get the feeling it will come back to be a bit of a nightmare if it happens to go wrong...

Croft wrote:

Neil - ever tried flying to Kathmandu (or anywhere) with a sea-kayak??

I've flown to nepal with a magic bat back in the day which wasn't a problem. There are some companies that make sea kayaks that split into sections and there are folding kayaks that pack up and fit into a back pack.

If I wanted to do a wilderness trip and take a play boat then I would just pay/con somebody to row the gear raft. Some companies even offer Sun kosi kayak trips like this.

I can see your point with the barrel, I just don't think it's going to catch on.

It is just silly in my opinion to compromize size/weight for convenience. Example, if you want to cook your food on a wilderness trip and you have no room in the boat, just stay home. I bring Fruit Leather, water bottle with a built-in filter in the mouthpeice, bread, peanut butter and Jelly, and trail mix. This gives you liquid, protein, sugars, and fiber. That's all you need other than minimal gear for shelter and rescue. I con't understand for the life of me why people need pans, stoves, etc... for trips which they need to travel light. It's just rediculous to me to trade performance and safety for luxury. I you are a comercial company and you want to bring these things for your consumers then designate a larger cargo boat with some of the guides. And that's all I have to say about that. Safety and performance traded for luxury, what a crock!

Whitewaterule,
Boe

Danny - I do agree with you that folks should be sensible about picking the right boat and loading it correctly - indeed some people do. Unfortunately in reality kayakers will often go for the smallest possible kayak and take the video filming gear rather than survival rations.

I am really enjoying the blog coverage of the Tsangpo - those guys seem to be paddling totally appropriate boats for what they are doing.

For me one of the joys of paddling a more mellow wilderness river is to explore and surf every available spot - and I want to find a way to do it by self-support.

Croft wrote:

For me one of the joys of paddling a more mellow wilderness river is to explore and surf every available spot - and I want to find a way to do it by self-support.

I reckon you should get someone to paddle down a 2 man raft such as one of these. Thats what a lot of people in South Africa do so they can paddle their playboats down on overnight or multi-day trips. They are called 'crocs' here and can, in the right hands, handle class 4 or more. Most commercial trips with clients are run using this type of craft. Or else 6 and 8 man rafts on the bigger rivers. They're not too expensive and fit into the boot of most cars. And I already know your response: Then how do I put that on plane? Well if you want it all then you got to pay for it Good luck and keep surfing

adrian.playak.com/images/stories/Upper_U...aller%20img_2980.jpg
adrian.playak.com/images/stories/Upper_U...aller%20img_2975.jpg

Thanks Adrian - the only problem I can see with this is that the guy in the croc misses out on some of the fun - which is fine if you are paying for support - but that was not my aim by launching this idea (I've also done lots of raft-supported trips and dont mind paying - sometimes it just aint convenient or possible). The other problem I have is finding anybody to paddle with a grumpy old man like me voluntarily (just look at my karma)!

Whitewaterules - I'm all for being minimalistic but pragmatic too. I do a lot of winter ski-mountaineering and am always equipped to survive if things go wrong and you have to dig-in for a while (weather or accident) and sit-it out (and have). Many people are ski-mountaineering in the Alps with only their mobile phone as safety equipment - which may be great for calling out the helicopter (if you can get a signal) - but is pretty useless if the weather turns bad. Its a question of getting the right balance between weight and safety and I guess that is where personal choice and being responsible comes in.

With all due respect Mr. Croft, that is a weak response. If you do not take luxuty items, in my opinion, there should be ample room for gear. This is as long as yo uare not paddling a playboat.

Time to swallow my pride and admit that this is probably a bad idea (the barrel) - see the list of pros and cons in my previous posting.

The idea came to me from sack hauling, bike trailers and those dinky sledges that artic explorers drag behind them - but I admit that it probably cant be applied efficiently and safely to kayaking.

Thanks to everyone who has participated - you have certainly helped me to clarify my plans for future self-support trips. I will also be well practiced to drag anything down a river if the need ever arises (in an emergency).

Signing-off - great boating to all - Ian Beecroft

You guys remember this post? Have a good laugh.